A Link to the Past Randomizer ~ Beat the game (Finished)

A Link to the Past Randomizer ALttPR Beat the game adkeys - https://alttpr.com/h/ZeM4YEw0vj - (Green Potion/Bombs/Magic Powder/Map/Flippers)

Opened by: VortexofDoom #1756
Race monitors: No-one
Started at: 5/13/2023, 12:08:31 AM
Ended at: 5/13/2023, 2:34:38 AM

1st VortexofDoom #1756 he / him Finished 1:54:03 1:54:03 3
2nd adirondackrick #4468 he / him A tutorial on how NOT to route. Finished 2:26:06 2:26:06 4

2 entrants (0 inactive)

2:26:06.4

Finished This race has been completed

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02:49 adirondackrick: Right. Like I said, I know I routed poorly.
02:49 adirondackrick: AD Keysanity is a mode that makes routing poorly painful.
02:50 VortexofDoom: yeah it's a mode where I think a lot more about what's likely to be the answer and how punished I'll be if I'm wrong
02:50 VortexofDoom: rather than just going on pure number of checks
02:50 adirondackrick: Yeah.
02:51 VortexofDoom: It's why I did light DM over VoO with the flute/hammer/hook.
02:51 adirondackrick: If anything, I'm disappointed in how I routed, had been playing out my mind some this week to get into the brackets in Challenge Cup. This -- felt like three steps backwards.
02:51 VortexofDoom: I had Hera big, I didn't have TT small, I figured mountain had a little more pull
02:52 adirondackrick: Why does that TT small make such a difference to you, because of reasons like today?
02:52 VortexofDoom: Well it's locking 3 checks in back of TT, rather than just 1. Most of the time it doesn't actually pan out with anything when I have it.
02:53 VortexofDoom: The hera clear was in logic, so I figured the 3 checks I'd get climbing that were more likely than the 3 i'd get in the out of logic TT clear
02:53 adirondackrick: Right.
02:53 VortexofDoom: and SW/VoO and paradox/spiral are pretty similar numbers otherwise
02:53 adirondackrick: So it's more important to you to stay in logic, you feel.
02:53 adirondackrick: In this.
02:53 VortexofDoom: Definitely to think about the logic
02:54 VortexofDoom: During the race I thought I got punished kind of for doing that because I could have had boots and had mirror available basically right away if I'd done SW into TT instead of mountain and done almost all the mountain in one go
02:54 VortexofDoom: and could have had SP small knowledge before GT
02:55 adirondackrick: Right.
02:55 VortexofDoom: That was another thing I thought about logic for
02:55 adirondackrick: But in this situation, what I did by rushing Thieves was create more pain for myself.
02:55 VortexofDoom: I had 4 checks in the game that needed to have 2 PoD smalls
02:55 VortexofDoom: and thought it was pretty likely that one was in swamp and the small was available
02:55 VortexofDoom: which turned out to be true
02:56 adirondackrick: How do you think about things like that in the middle of a seed, though?
02:57 VortexofDoom: sometimes I miss stuff, but missing 2 PoD smalls for logical GT access when you only have 4 places one can be (Hera basement couldn't have) made me think as I was heading to GT
02:57 VortexofDoom: I had skipped TR right side and I realized that one of my in logic checks had a decent chance of being swamp small leading to one or both in there
02:58 adirondackrick: And the importance of that is...
02:58 adirondackrick: Swamp Small had to be out of GT?
02:58 VortexofDoom: realized I probably should have done TR right which made me check ether before TR basement
02:58 VortexofDoom: if ether hadn't been it I probably would have gone back for TR right side after the basement as well
02:59 adirondackrick: Right.
02:59 VortexofDoom: just because the odds were that swamp was locking PoD rather than me having entirely missed 2 small keys only skipping 4 checks
02:59 VortexofDoom: This just isn't a mode where I rush things as soon as they're "beatable" if it means orphaning a check
03:00 adirondackrick: Right.
03:00 VortexofDoom: I'm not gonna fake flipper into IP without the BK almost ever in this mode, even with cane, for instance
03:00 adirondackrick: Why not?
03:00 adirondackrick: Because you're still missing that logic component?
03:01 VortexofDoom: because I'm missing at least 2 things to make it logically likely to pay out.
03:01 VortexofDoom: I need the flippers anyway, for one thing, so I can at least put off BK-less IP until SOME of the checks are in logic
03:01 adirondackrick: Right.
03:02 adirondackrick: So this, like FAD Keys, is a mode that can really punish you for sequence breaking too hard.
03:02 VortexofDoom: Sometimes it can pay out, but you will burn yourself often if your sequence breaks lead to orphans
03:03 adirondackrick: Which in this case, TT big chest.
03:03 VortexofDoom: I'll fake flipper to IP if I have cane and BK for instance
03:03 VortexofDoom: yeah
03:03 VortexofDoom: I also put off IP when I got the FR hoping for the BK, so I lost some efficiency there, it can go both ways
03:05 adirondackrick: I thought "is this the seed that gives you mirror in POD Big Key Chest and hides the remaining keys behind mirror?"
03:05 VortexofDoom: I don't think it can hide more than 1 key behind BK chest
03:06 adirondackrick: Really... so then I was just foolish for thinking that and Hellway had something.
03:06 VortexofDoom: I think maybe exactly one, but it has to be very hard locked, and I think bow has to be behind it too
03:06 adirondackrick: Because I returned when the items were running out trying to find that mirror that put the Lamp in logic.
03:07 VortexofDoom: yeah you need a minimum of 5 keys to put those in logic, and realistically the only time they require 5 is if the 6th is actually there
03:07 adirondackrick: 6th being in POD?
03:07 VortexofDoom: in the BK chest or hellway
03:08 adirondackrick: So yeah, then I was a fool for thinking that.
03:08 VortexofDoom: there are I think edge cases where they could require 5 if bow isn't available, but I tend to assume I missed one rather than thinking it's one of those corner cases ahead of time
03:08 VortexofDoom: PoD key logic is weird
03:09 VortexofDoom: And I've for sure made plays that were logically impossible to pay out before
03:09 VortexofDoom: and it's not like all you were looking for was mirror
03:09 adirondackrick: Right.
03:09 adirondackrick: Just shouldn't make that move with 4 POD keys at that time.
03:10 VortexofDoom: Where was PoD big again?
03:10 VortexofDoom: was it mitts locked?
03:10 adirondackrick: Like I said, I routed horribly, two deaths make things worse.
03:10 VortexofDoom: yeah definitely
03:10 VortexofDoom: you'll bounce back though
03:10 adirondackrick: And like I said.
03:10 adirondackrick: You're too far a good runner to be getting away with that.
03:11 adirondackrick: POD BK was Well
03:11 VortexofDoom: ok couldn't remember for sure, knew I had it before going
03:12 VortexofDoom: curious what made you do BK chest over helma?
03:12 VortexofDoom: oh I guess you were thinking BK chest wasn't behind lamp
03:12 adirondackrick: Yep
03:12 VortexofDoom: which could technically have been true
03:13 VortexofDoom: I tend to just leave BK chest, whichever you're opening, if you're keeping what's there you're commiting to an extra dip to get the other, might as well have it be the thing that you MIGHT get away with skipping
03:13 adirondackrick: 34 minutes in was when I took the death in POD. Although that was a folly of embarrassments too.
03:13 VortexofDoom: but yeah it makes more sense knowing your thoughts
03:14 adirondackrick: Double dips of EP, DP, TT, TR. Quadruple dip of POD.
03:14 VortexofDoom: Yeah I single dipped all of those but TR, and compass/chomps barely counts
03:14 adirondackrick: I think maybe next week I go back into the bubble of just myself and ignore chat, because too much went wrong that seed.
03:15 adirondackrick: And that was because you pretty much cleared the OW trying to get the tools to beat those dungeons instead of rushing in without all the tools.
03:16 VortexofDoom: yeah, I almost double dipped DP because I forgot I didn't have fire but held off
03:16 VortexofDoom: realistically you're not gonna skip a significant amount of overworld in these seeds
03:16 VortexofDoom: if you can do OW more efficiently than a dungeon clear, it's probably a decent idea
03:17 VortexofDoom: And sometimes it pays to realize you can already beat a lot of dungeons and start making skips at that point
03:18 adirondackrick: That needs to be my main takeaway here.
03:18 VortexofDoom: but when the progression trickles in like in this seed, you're just not gonna be able to skip much
03:18 adirondackrick: Yep. AD Keys (FAD Keys) is going to be mostly full clear, it's just a matter of how well you can route it.
03:18 VortexofDoom: Yep
03:20 adirondackrick: Like I know the qualifier I did, I made several mistakes that was why my score was 87. While that was my high score, it still could of been much better
03:22 VortexofDoom: Yeah there's always things to improve on, nothing to do for it but keep learning
03:22 adirondackrick: Yeah, definitely.
03:22 VortexofDoom: It's getting pretty late here so I'm probably gonna hit the hay
03:22 adirondackrick: Go ahead, thanks for talking as long as you have about this seed.
03:22 VortexofDoom: ggs again and good luck going forward in this and CC
03:22 adirondackrick: GG's, totally deserve this win.
03:23 VortexofDoom: np, always nice to chat, have a great rest of your night
03:28 adirondackrick#4468 added a comment.
08:16 Race result recorded by Eriror#8787